First, with all my heart I wish you both good health. (I realize fans’ wishes aren’t particularly effective medicine but that’s not gonna stop me from rooting for you. And sending hugs.)
Second…as I was listening to you discussing ADHD, this idea came to me: y’all could invite Thom Hartmann on!!! Because a) years ago, I heard him argue exactly that angle, that “hyperactivity” was an adaptive trait in the environment in which our ancestors evolved, so that’s something you three could definitely chat about…and b) he’s got a substantial progressive following, so if y’all were able to help him understand your perspectives on the gender stuff, then who knows, good things might ensue.
I just listened to your new episode with hero pediatrician Julia Mason! Did you know she was going to refer to Hartmann, regarding ADHD?? :) (I still think it’s worth reaching out to him, to see if that’s a bridge that could start to be built…)
There could be an interesting and intelligent convo about education and work and the societal and governmental reasons behind it.
There could be an interesting and intelligent convo about autism - the continuum, the spectrum, the over diagnosis, etc. And perhaps how that dovetails into the over diagnosis of trans identity. And how really maybe we shouldn't trust medical professionals for proper diagnosis.
Oh god, last week I accidentally had a pizza delivered to a hotel room I’d stayed in during a business trip the previous week, because I didn’t realize that the restaurant I was ordering from was a chain with a location near there too, and that the hotel address was still saved as primary on my Grubhub account. “You’re here? I don’t see you. Wait, where are you? … Oh, you’re in *Ohio?* Ohhhh… okay, I see what happened here.”
So I can relate to Jamie. 😅
I saw you share your share about Winter on X, Cori. Heartbreaking. This whole thing just makes me feel so sad and angry.
The other day, I was relating a story to my friend about how I’d gotten false nails put on at a salon once. They were supposed to be for a wedding I was going to attend, but I found wearing them so intolerable that I clipped them down with nail-clippers within an hour of getting home. I said I’d felt like I was the dog in one of those videos where someone’s put booties on them and they’re walking around awkwardly trying to shake them off their paws. She asked, “Have you ever considered getting tested for autism?”
And I said, “Not really. What purpose would it serve at this point in my life?”
And she said, “Who are you, my neurologist?”
But yes, I am also skeptical of the value of these models for thinking about the human mind and behavior, and indeed, the value of professional diagnoses for them. See also: the gender space.
I always love your podcast, but I was pretty disappointed to hear you, Nina, trot out that old Covidian line that the school closures showed that "parents just don't want to spend time with their children". That was the insult that, in 2020/21, was leveled at any parent (especially mothers) who dared object to the unending closures by the progressive illiberal lockdown enthusiasts who thought any concern about the trade-offs of "staying home, staying safe" was part of a right-wing agenda that put the economy over "saving lives".
While I completely agree with you that in many cases what's diagnosed as ADHD is just normal behavior of kids, and that school is poorly designed especially for boys who are not meant to sit still for 7 hours a day, as the parent of two "neurodivergent" boys who fall into that category (one diagnosed with autism, the other with ADHD, neither of them medicated), I can tell you that the school closures were harmful on so many levels, despite our relatively privileged situation. The sudden end to regular routines, structured socialization, and in-person learning was devastating. While they were initially thrilled to be home all day with us, they now remember that time as the worst of their lives (unlike the first three years of their lives, where they were also home with me full time). My now 12-year-old still talks about how he could never understand "vertical form" in math while on Zoom, and then immediately got it once it was finally explained to him in person in the fall of 2021. Oh, and even the fact that he has a father with an engineering PhD perfectly willing and capable of explaining any mathematical concept didn't help, because ours, like many kids, put up a lot of opposition to their parents acting as teachers.
If school was, as you seem to argue, just a place for control and indoctrination, we wouldn't see the devastating losses in learning, especially among low-income kids after over a school year of closures. Those kids will be paying for the rest of their lives for our society's choice to protect the laptop class from a virus by keeping them out of school for more than a year, with shortened life expectancy being one of the costs of their disrupted education. School, for all its flaws, still serves an important function in society, beyond just being a place to keep kids while their parents work (although that is important and legitimate as well).
And while most parents need a break from their kids from time to time (just as they need one from any other human being), it doesn't mean they only want schools to operate because they "don't like spending time with their kids". Please stop perpetuating this trope.
What if the spoon people started bartering with each other, exchanging good and services for spoons?
I am circling around the idea that the open society does in fact need to tolerate the intolerant, or at least not scapegoat them, just enough to keep the resentment at or below a mild simmer. So, a liberal artist who could give them voice would be pretty special. And able to thread a camel through a needle or something like that.
could you talk more about how you feel like the future is offline? nina mentions it briefly during this episode. i'm a working artist who spends a lot of time online. i have the same feeling but finding my reasons difficult to articulate because i have ... let's call it "brain fog".
Next week will you talk about the Florida teacher who got fired for using a student’s preferred name (without parental consent) ? And will you explain what’s wrong with this so I can educate my friends who think the teacher was just going for inclusivity and dignity? Thank you both! Love the show.
First, with all my heart I wish you both good health. (I realize fans’ wishes aren’t particularly effective medicine but that’s not gonna stop me from rooting for you. And sending hugs.)
Second…as I was listening to you discussing ADHD, this idea came to me: y’all could invite Thom Hartmann on!!! Because a) years ago, I heard him argue exactly that angle, that “hyperactivity” was an adaptive trait in the environment in which our ancestors evolved, so that’s something you three could definitely chat about…and b) he’s got a substantial progressive following, so if y’all were able to help him understand your perspectives on the gender stuff, then who knows, good things might ensue.
Probably a long shot, but you could try??
I just listened to your new episode with hero pediatrician Julia Mason! Did you know she was going to refer to Hartmann, regarding ADHD?? :) (I still think it’s worth reaching out to him, to see if that’s a bridge that could start to be built…)
There could be an interesting and intelligent convo about education and work and the societal and governmental reasons behind it.
There could be an interesting and intelligent convo about autism - the continuum, the spectrum, the over diagnosis, etc. And perhaps how that dovetails into the over diagnosis of trans identity. And how really maybe we shouldn't trust medical professionals for proper diagnosis.
Thank you for reminding me of "You Be Illin.'" :D
The young “NB” do wear the bow tie a lot, but I can think of some well-known young folks in the GC circuit who are making bow ties based again. 🤵♂️😉
Thank you!
Oh god, last week I accidentally had a pizza delivered to a hotel room I’d stayed in during a business trip the previous week, because I didn’t realize that the restaurant I was ordering from was a chain with a location near there too, and that the hotel address was still saved as primary on my Grubhub account. “You’re here? I don’t see you. Wait, where are you? … Oh, you’re in *Ohio?* Ohhhh… okay, I see what happened here.”
So I can relate to Jamie. 😅
I saw you share your share about Winter on X, Cori. Heartbreaking. This whole thing just makes me feel so sad and angry.
The other day, I was relating a story to my friend about how I’d gotten false nails put on at a salon once. They were supposed to be for a wedding I was going to attend, but I found wearing them so intolerable that I clipped them down with nail-clippers within an hour of getting home. I said I’d felt like I was the dog in one of those videos where someone’s put booties on them and they’re walking around awkwardly trying to shake them off their paws. She asked, “Have you ever considered getting tested for autism?”
And I said, “Not really. What purpose would it serve at this point in my life?”
And she said, “Who are you, my neurologist?”
But yes, I am also skeptical of the value of these models for thinking about the human mind and behavior, and indeed, the value of professional diagnoses for them. See also: the gender space.
I always love your podcast, but I was pretty disappointed to hear you, Nina, trot out that old Covidian line that the school closures showed that "parents just don't want to spend time with their children". That was the insult that, in 2020/21, was leveled at any parent (especially mothers) who dared object to the unending closures by the progressive illiberal lockdown enthusiasts who thought any concern about the trade-offs of "staying home, staying safe" was part of a right-wing agenda that put the economy over "saving lives".
While I completely agree with you that in many cases what's diagnosed as ADHD is just normal behavior of kids, and that school is poorly designed especially for boys who are not meant to sit still for 7 hours a day, as the parent of two "neurodivergent" boys who fall into that category (one diagnosed with autism, the other with ADHD, neither of them medicated), I can tell you that the school closures were harmful on so many levels, despite our relatively privileged situation. The sudden end to regular routines, structured socialization, and in-person learning was devastating. While they were initially thrilled to be home all day with us, they now remember that time as the worst of their lives (unlike the first three years of their lives, where they were also home with me full time). My now 12-year-old still talks about how he could never understand "vertical form" in math while on Zoom, and then immediately got it once it was finally explained to him in person in the fall of 2021. Oh, and even the fact that he has a father with an engineering PhD perfectly willing and capable of explaining any mathematical concept didn't help, because ours, like many kids, put up a lot of opposition to their parents acting as teachers.
If school was, as you seem to argue, just a place for control and indoctrination, we wouldn't see the devastating losses in learning, especially among low-income kids after over a school year of closures. Those kids will be paying for the rest of their lives for our society's choice to protect the laptop class from a virus by keeping them out of school for more than a year, with shortened life expectancy being one of the costs of their disrupted education. School, for all its flaws, still serves an important function in society, beyond just being a place to keep kids while their parents work (although that is important and legitimate as well).
And while most parents need a break from their kids from time to time (just as they need one from any other human being), it doesn't mean they only want schools to operate because they "don't like spending time with their kids". Please stop perpetuating this trope.
Would love to hear more about all these topics!
What if the spoon people started bartering with each other, exchanging good and services for spoons?
I am circling around the idea that the open society does in fact need to tolerate the intolerant, or at least not scapegoat them, just enough to keep the resentment at or below a mild simmer. So, a liberal artist who could give them voice would be pretty special. And able to thread a camel through a needle or something like that.
hi !
could you talk more about how you feel like the future is offline? nina mentions it briefly during this episode. i'm a working artist who spends a lot of time online. i have the same feeling but finding my reasons difficult to articulate because i have ... let's call it "brain fog".
love the pod so much
Thank you Cori and Nina for what you do.
A content suggestion:
I saw Carol Cadwallars TED talk on the technological coup. She was terrified and her talk was scary. I would be interested in your thoughts on it
Next week will you talk about the Florida teacher who got fired for using a student’s preferred name (without parental consent) ? And will you explain what’s wrong with this so I can educate my friends who think the teacher was just going for inclusivity and dignity? Thank you both! Love the show.